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Ok, I have the advantage of getting to hold a composite top section in my hands and even go sailing with it. What I see is the choice between something that looks like it has the ability to solve all the problems with the aluminum spars (variability, lifetime, permanent bending, etc.) versus continuing to try to band aid solutions onto something that was never intended to be used as it is today.
Thanks for update - amazing that with all the adhesives the aerospace guys are cranking out that we can't bond aluminum and plastic.. back to the mixing pail
[... material deleted for brevity ...]
Is it class legal to glue it instead?Been using it glued for the last year.... no issues of slippage at all.
If the new composite top gets introduced in the near future, I should still be able to use my old aluminium top and race it at international regattas.
If that composite top is softer, or in any other way inferior to the old aluminum top for a heavy sailor, then what??....
Will all new Lasers then be equipped with a composite top?
Will it be illegal to use an aluminium top on new boats delivered with the new mast top?
To supply an new mast top that is softer than the old one is not logic because the average weight of the general population is on the increase.
The Taser class is a good example of well managed change in a strictly one design environment - although it might cost a few dollars to stay competitive. They changed to a cheaper and better Mylar sail and at the same time increased the sail area slightly because of the above argument of weight increase in the general population.
I suppose any rule is subject to interpretation. 26 (c) allows for alternative fastening methods as a means of preventive maintenance. My boat won't go any faster with glue instead of a rivet. All I'm doing is saving my equipment from premature failure.Is it class legal to glue it instead?
Anytime, I'm in the back by the vertical racks... the redheaded old guy.gotta be a rule against that..
still pretty cool though, care to share some next time I'm up at ABYC?
SFBayLaser; said:I agree that adopting these composite spars for the Laser Standard is problematic in that the spar is more flexible than the aluminum uppers (and, again, at 90kg I'm not looking for something that reduces my competitiveness).
So if they did allow the composite spar for the Standard rig, too, would it close that weight gap between when you're too heavy to race a Radial and too light to race a full rig? (165-170lbs/75-77k) How light could one be and still be competitive in a full rig in a decent breeze with this spar?
One question re: the sail (that I will be embarrassed if it has been raised already as I did have a look back). Does the composite top section use the same sail or does the sail have a different cut ?
Ian
I'm glad at least one other skipper read it the way I did. I didn't get a chance to look up the adhesive today at work, will get it tomorrow. As for end for ending, it can still be done, but you'll probably have to cut off the sleeve. Hopefully without the weak spot, end for ending won't be necessary.26 (c)
Preventative maintenance shall include the
replacement of fastenings with alternatives and
the reversing of spars provided that the fittings
are replaced in accordance with the Measurement
Diagrams...
Yikes, that's pretty clear. So, that rivet and hole can be gone, if we reverse the top, and we don't even have to wait til it bends, as it can be a preventative measure. I assume if we find the superglue, say 5200 or better, that once glued, it's permanent, and there ain't gonna be no more end-for-ending possible....
Al "MTR" R
"gotta be a rule against that.." Ross B referring to a "glued" sleeve. I though this would be a correct assumption, based on "if it doesn't say you can do it, you can't".
But, I thought I'd look here:
http://www.laserinternational.org/rules/rules07.pdf
26 (c)
Preventative maintenance shall include the
replacement of fastenings with alternatives and
the reversing of spars provided that the fittings
are replaced in accordance with the Measurement
Diagrams...
Yikes, that's pretty clear. So, that rivet and hole can be gone, if we reverse the top, and we don't even have to wait til it bends, as it can be a preventative measure. I assume if we find the superglue, say 5200 or better, that once glued, it's permanent, and there ain't gonna be no more end-for-ending possible....
Al "MTR" R
the composite top section is for the LIGHT sailors, because it is softer
Hi, have you used one? I have, and in a fleet where the top three boats always finish within 5-10 seconds of each other opver a 60 minute race . Well it was 20 knots and guess what, I finished exactly wher I normally do, 2nd in race 1 and 3rd no race 2 - just like I would probably have if I had the standars aluminium section. I noticed NO NONE NIL performance advantage. The only advantage wqas it didn't permenently nbend.
Was that with your normal (alu mast) sail or does it come with its own different sail (to account for its different bend characteristics) ? One would expect a mast with different bend characteristics to have a different shaped sail.
Ian
Hi, guys.Clive,
It is an aviation adhesive, specifically designed to glue either plastic or aluminum to aluminum.
Ross,
yes it's simply glued on, no rivet.
My reading of the rule is that adhesive may be legal in that in 26c it says that alternatives to fastenings are specifically allowed. The class rule interpretations only say that fastenings include screws, bolts, nuts, washers and rivets. 26c specifically allows alternatives which I would suggest can include adhesive. Any other legal opinions out there?