All about to kick off....

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by Laser Tim, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. Gantt

    Gantt Member

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    Apologies.
     
  2. Gantt

    Gantt Member

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    A Stipulation of Dismissal was filed 19 November. Wondering if a settlement has been reached?
     
  3. whatever

    whatever Member

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    I doubt it. The dismissal is: 1. LPE's claims against PSA and 2. some (not all) of LPE's claims against Global Sailing. See attachment.
     

    Attached Files:

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  4. Gantt

    Gantt Member

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    Thanks for posting that 'Whatever'.
    6. Breach Of The 1983 Builder Agreement
    7. Breach Of The 1989 Builder Agreement
    9. Unjust Enrichment (Against Kirby, BKI And Global Sailing)
     
  5. USA182772

    USA182772 Member

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    I noticed someone on the other blog commented about the high entry fees....$450 at Masters worlds....$350 Miami OCR..While it is always great to see some of the new athlete's getting into the sport I can't think of worse way to promote the sport than to have these high entry fees. At Cedar Point they got entry fees down to the bare minimum and I didn't hear one sailor complain about it and we still have enough $ for the after race pizza party...It's not about the money, it's about being well organized.
     
  6. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    That is really the cost of running these big regattas unfortunately. Grouping the masters and open worlds together, allows for costs to be shared. But a huge proportion of the costs are associated with bring in the international race officials and accomodating them (they don't get paid). As long as ISAF expects World Chamionships to be run with these officials, regattas will be expensive. Obviously there are other expenses that can also be looked at.
     
  7. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    Apples and oranges. You're talking a week-long, international regatta with top-level sailors.
     
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  8. UK Laser Sailor

    UK Laser Sailor Member

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  9. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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  10. Gantt

    Gantt Member

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    Next item on the schedule is a motions hearing on 21 May.

    I don't think the majority of Laser sailing is affected. What seems to be a bigger threat is the emergence of the RS Aero - they seem to be active in most markets - but have a long way before they get anything close to the market penetration of the Laser class. The thing they struggle from most is the cost of entry - you can get an older Laser for cheap and go race against others - with the RS Aero you can only get new or near new - and there are few fleets. I'm not saying they won't make it - they have a lot of work to go before they get there.
     
  11. USA182772

    USA182772 Member

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  12. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    So many have tried to repeat the Laser formula and all have been essentially unsuccessful, except in very small pockets.

    As Gantt says you need market penetration, without good fleet sizes, inexpensive second hand boats and a world wide distribution network no class is going to get that market penetration, particularly when there are 50 other builders/designers trying to do the same thing.
     
  13. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    No new competing classes threaten the Laser in any way as long as the sport as a whole is not growing. Even in places where there is growth (mostly in Asia), the choice seems to be to go with classes like the Laser (designed 45 years ago), 420 (designed 55 years ago) and Optimist (designed 68 years ago!).

    When the Laser was new, dinghy sailing wasn't merely growing, it was exploding by today's standards. Think of what honestly counts as a 21st-century success: the 29er is sailed on all continents and has had 200-boat World Championships. Still, after 15 years its total numbers are about the same as the number of Lasers built each year during that same time. And in the peak years of the 1970s, Lasers were built at more than five times the current rate.

    So, to not go farther off topic, one way to look at the lawsuit is that it's about global domination of a shrinking market. Maybe it's no wonder that ILCA chose to side with the largest builder... though I've thought all the time that the class would survive even a complete, multi-year production stop. People wouldn't ask "what brand new singlehanded boat should I buy", but "where do I get a little-used Laser"?
     
  14. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    Nice video, but no news about the M14 for a long time...
    Did the introduction of the Aero in the US throw a stick on the Melges road?
     
  15. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    Part of the reason why Lasers were successful was because they hit the market at about the time fibreglass was introduced to boat building, five years earlier you built your own boat, had a boat builder build it or purchased a second hand boat, all of which were made in timber. As a result, at least in this region, there were lots of classes, with reasonable fleet sizes, but many classes could draw their origins back to the needs of a specific club for a particular age group. Lasers offered mass production off the shelf boats something completely new at the time, but it also effectively killed off many of these other classes.

    I always find these promotional videos of new boats slightly amusing, all boats look fun and exciting on a reach, but they virtually never show the boat going upwind or square downwind where the boats don't look as exciting, but it's you really see how a boat performs and it's where racing predominately occurs.
     
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  16. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    It's been commented elsewhere that I looks very much like that boat is using a Laser vang and boom.
     
  17. Gantt

    Gantt Member

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    All good points are I agree with one exception. Global membership of the ILCA is either static or experiencing mild growth. I think the market potential is growing faster than population growth - because of increased affluence - again an overall global phenomena. The demise of the Laser is overstated...

    The results from the motions hearing must get posted shortly...
     
  18. UK Laser Sailor

    UK Laser Sailor Member

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  19. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    Sitting on a Sunfish...
     
  20. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Very interesting indeed. All along, the status of the third, and smallest, builder has been unclear. There was a mention on the Torch website a long time ago that Kirby had terminated his contract with PSJ, but I understand they're still building Lasers... completely legally under the current rules.

    I have met Takao Otani only briefly, but my late father knew him better (even staying at his home during a trip to Japan) and had nothing but good things to say about him. I would have thought he would have sided with Kirby on the legal issues, but looks like he's at least on speaking terms with LP. Maybe Kirby actually screwed up this one?

    Anyway, I have never understood why PSJ's piece of the Laser world has been so small. A few years ago, someone imported a bunch of barely-used Japanese boats over here, and one of their owners that I later spoke with was completely convinced of their superior quality.
     
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