ISO:Article by Ron Rosenberg circa June 1993? With pictures of Laser rig from behind

C

Colinkites2000

Member
I found what I was looking for in the Laser tuning guide off the Vanguard web page. In the article, it references the article listed above. Does anyone by any chance have this lying around or know where to find it?

All the best,
Colin
 
Sailing World published an article from Mark Mandelblat regarding tuning the new vang a couple of years ago. A 1993 article is a little dated considering all the rigging changes since then. I've got the new "boat whisperer" CD set on order. When I get a look at it I'll give ya'll my opinion weather or not it's worth the $60.00.
 
Upwind Tuning Basics Found. Need advice confirmation on concepts of rig and gears.

Keep me posted on the whisperer. For beginner's looking to go upwind well, I have found most of the information I need from the following articles online.

1) Rooster Sailing - Hints and Tips Section - Laser Rig Explained
2) Ryan Mynth - Article from Winter 05 Laser Publication on Tuning Radial
3) Tuning Guide from Vanguard Laser Homepage.

Experts, are my following generalizations correct?

I in lighter winds, the mainsheet is eased so the rig is at full power (straightest). (w/ a little kicker on to prevent hooking etc.)

As the breeze, builds and you are fully hiking, it can be sheeted IN further to bend the mast, flatten, open the leech and depower the sail?
Would you only want to do this when you cannot hike it flat with the sail out with straightest mast? Wouldn't two-blocking bend the mast, open leech and lose pointing ability? So only do this once you are overpowered?

When you get really overpowered, get the vang on so the boom goes out instead of up and sheet out as much as needed in the gusts in combination w/ steering to get the boat flat. ????
 
Re: Upwind Tuning Basics Found. Need advice confirmation on concepts of rig and gears.

Colinkites2000 said:
Keep me posted on the whisperer. For beginner's looking to go upwind well, I have found most of the information I need from the following articles online.

1) Rooster Sailing - Hints and Tips Section - Laser Rig Explained
2) Ryan Mynth - Article from Winter 05 Laser Publication on Tuning Radial
3) Tuning Guide from Vanguard Laser Homepage.

Experts, are my following generalizations correct?

I in lighter winds, the mainsheet is eased so the rig is at full power (straightest). (w/ a little kicker on to prevent hooking etc.)

As the breeze, builds and you are fully hiking, it can be sheeted IN further to bend the mast, flatten, open the leech and depower the sail?
Would you only want to do this when you cannot hike it flat with the sail out with straightest mast? Wouldn't two-blocking bend the mast, open leech and lose pointing ability? So only do this once you are overpowered?

When you get really overpowered, get the vang on so the boom goes out instead of up and sheet out as much as needed in the gusts in combination w/ steering to get the boat flat. ????
Click to expand...

You are going the right direction on the light air trim. However, as the breeze builds the vang becomes very important as you will tighten it far more than you can get out of 2 blocking. Depending on your weight you want to try and stay 2 blocked from the moment you are hiking as long as you can keep the boat flat. As the breeze builds you will be easing the sheet to keep the boat flat, but that vang will be on hard. Just remember to ease the vang before rounding the weather mark or you can break your mast as you ease out to turn downhill. I'm assuming you are working with the "pro" vang either harken or holt.
 
In addition the cunningham comes on when the breeze builds. In light air some people do not use any cunni, others take out the wrinkles. When you are two-blocked (around 10-12 knots) and more vang is applied you will at least need to take out some of the wrinkles (the ones that start at the division in mast-sections and point down to the clew). If you are overpowered pull on more vang and more cunningham. When it is really windy, you will pull the grommet to the top of the boom, or further (it IS crazy indeed, don't do it with a new sail!).
The hardest thing is the vang. You want some mast-bend, but not too much. you want to have the leech open up a bit but not too much. In order to determine what is too much or too little you will need to spend lots of time on the water. Try to make marks on the vang so that it is easy to remember what works.
GWF
 
Re: Upwind Tuning Basics Found. Need advice confirmation on concepts of rig and gears

Rob B said:
snip Depending on your weight you want to try and stay 2 blocked from the moment you are hiking as long as you can keep the boat flat. snip .
Click to expand...

.... this is the part I am stilll not 100% sure on.

So you are at full power with the rig straight up and mainsheet out 6-8" to keep the leech fairly closed and maximize return...

Breeze builds.... and next step once hiking is to goto 2 blocked;

When you goto 2 blocked mode, doesn't that depower the sail and open up the leech since the mast is bending? So sheeting out from 2 blocked to 6" will actually power up the rig and sheeting in to 2 blocked will depower? (until the vang is on enough to let the boom go out sideways)

OR

Is it that when you go 2 blocked, you are bringing the sail in tightest since it is now possible with enough sideways force up top from increased breeze killing any possible leech hook/stalling.

Thank you for your patience in this matter. Cheers Colin
 
By the way, two blocking does not open up the leech as you suggest, since you bend the mast with the sheet, which pulls down the clew, which pulls down - and hence closes - the leech, which bends the mast.
Pointing ability thus becomes better, but you need enough wind to do this, otherwise you will just stall the boat. Also in wavy conditions you will need more drive, and thus more twist.
GWF
 
Re: ISO:Article by Ron Rosenberg circa June 1993? With pictures of Laser rig from beh

Are these statements true? Taken from the Vanguard tuning guide.

As a result, as the Laser mainsheet is pulled tighter, bending the mast and flattening the sail, it reduces leech/batten hook or "return" and opens the leach. It is paradoxical that we call the Laser leech "open" when the cloth along the leech is pulled tightest (at max bend). This is opposite to a stayed mast, where a tighter mainsheet means a tighter leech means more hook. This is an extremely important thing to teach about the Laser rig and sail.Conversely, easing the Laser mainsheet makes the sail fuller, causing more return in the leech and adding power. Again, this is opposite to a stayed mast, where easing the mainsheet opens the leech by twist, and reduces power (unless it is very light in which case power comes from flow)

A result of this situation is that we often find sailors "two-blocked", thinking that gives max power (tightest leech), when they should be eased one to two feet on the sheet to straighten the mast and make the sail fuller. .
 
The wording in that tuning-guide is somewhat confusing (they call it paradoxical). Yet, they are (at least partly) right: the sail shape does change not only at the leech, but also in the middle (think of the middle of the mast going forward). So when the vang comes on, one does not only tighten the leech, but the sail becomes flatter as well.
The part I disagree with is that they seem to suggest that there is not such a thing as increase in twist when the mainsheet is eased. Twist does not result in a loss of power, but in a loss of pointing ability.
Their suggestion is great: rig the sail on land and stand behind it to see what happens when you change the vang.
GWF
 
Re: ISO:Article by Ron Rosenberg circa June 1993? With pictures of Laser rig from beh

I guess the part I am unsure on is;

When you goto two-blocked from light wind sheet tension, does the leech open or close. Tuning guide says one thing, George I think you are saying another right?
 
The writers of the tuning guide call the leech ""open" when the cloth along the leech is pulled tightest"
I call a leech that is tight "closed".
In any case, when you will pull on the vang a lot the sail will become flatter, that is the important thing here.
Enough about terminology, let's use some visual aids here:
Take a look at the last picture on this site (all the way to the right):
http://www.laserchampionships.org/worlds04/Photos/Day%204/FrameSet.htm
These are lasers going upwind in heavy air. The shape of the sail looks horrible, but notice how flat the sails are. There is almost no draft in the top part of the sail. This is accomplished through a combination of cunnigham and vang tension. The same thing cannot be accomplished through those controls on a stayed rig (where you probably would do this by adjusting the back stay). That is the point!
You can compare the picture to the reach pictures, where they have eased the vang quite a bit and where the sails have lots and lots of twist.

GWF
 
Re: ISO:Article by Ron Rosenberg circa June 1993? With pictures of Laser rig from beh

Thanks George. I will take a look at the rig from behind. I still think the tuning guide has some confusing statements, implying that the leech opens as the mast bends when it is fully sheeted in. Appreciate the info though.

Kind Regards,
Colin
 
If I give up posting on this forum it will be caused by the diffculty of typing a decent message within the limited time allowed. I have answered this request five times tonight only to receive a "timed out" message. This is the last try...

Rosenbergs articel was published in the summer 93 issue on page 24.

Ron is a really nice fellow and I hesitate to write what follows as some might misinterpret it.

There is a difference between ignorant and dumbass. It is ok to be ignorant, especially if, as Ron was, you are busting your biutt to correc thte problem.

Anyway, I tried to retype the entire article. Sorry, it is just too outdated and depressing in its ignorance for me to be able to nbear that task.

My summary:
Ron said:


Train more on land and shore.
Sail in bigger regattas expecially in those regattas where the hotshots from around the world are competing.

other than that, the article just showed how frustratingly ignorant the NA sailors had become with respect to the game as it ahd developed around the world.

This year's Worlds results show we have gone backwords since...sooo depressing...

fred
 
I did the 93' US NA's and Ron was there with the newly formed US LAser Sailing Team. My opinion of Ron, (after an evening "chalk talk") was that he did not know much about how to make the Laser go better and was pretty proud of himself for being the US Team coach.
 
gouvernail said:
If I give up posting on this forum it will be caused by the diffculty of typing a decent message within the limited time allowed. I have answered this request five times tonight only to receive a "timed out" message.
Click to expand...

GroovieNails,
I agree with you on how maddening it is to get timed out. Try typing your reply in a Word document or on your computer's notebook. You can then give a thoughtful and concise answer, taking as long as you like. You can even open another browser and search for details to put in your reply. When you are satisfied with your perfectly composed, spelled, and edited composition, you can then paste it into a reply box in the appropriate thread. Remember, brevity is the soul of wit.

Merrily
 
Re: Timeouts...

I am looking for the root of this problem and I will attempt to lengthen the time allowed. Make sure you click the remember me button when you login.
 
Georg W.F. said:
The writers of the tuning guide call the leech ""open" when the cloth along the leech is pulled tightest"
I call a leech that is tight "closed".
In any case, when you will pull on the vang a lot the sail will become flatter, that is the important thing here.
Enough about terminology, let's use some visual aids here:
Take a look at the last picture on this site (all the way to the right):
http://www.laserchampionships.org/worlds04/Photos/Day%204/FrameSet.htm
These are lasers going upwind in heavy air. The shape of the sail looks horrible, but notice how flat the sails are. There is almost no draft in the top part of the sail. This is accomplished through a combination of cunnigham and vang tension. The same thing cannot be accomplished through those controls on a stayed rig (where you probably would do this by adjusting the back stay). That is the point!
You can compare the picture to the reach pictures, where they have eased the vang quite a bit and where the sails have lots and lots of twist.

GWF
Click to expand...

181255 -> Good comments George, I think it is also important to note that in that last picture they are probably sheeted out a litte. For sure tons of vang and cuningham, and totally working the boat in every single wave they see in front of them. The Locks is good for this type of sailing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top