What gives!?!?

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by NC-LASER, Jul 24, 2017.

  1. NC-LASER

    NC-LASER New Member

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    Ok, I'm new on here and new to Lasers. But, an old hat to sailing and boating in general. Born sailing a Sunfish on a lake in the back yard to inland/coastal sailing a Hobie 16. I also know this is probably a topic that is/has been beaten to death.... what's up with these ridiculous class rules?? Specifically for rigging. I get the one design concept, let's keep that intact. But, who cares how it's rigged?? All the performance has already been squeezed out of the design so let's make it easier/quicker to rig. For starters. ... how about a lock pin for the rudder? Second, attach a block to the outhaul fairlead? Third, attach a hoop of line to the downhaul grommet so you can just quick pin the Cunningham to it. Fourth, I haven't completely figured the best solution for this yet, to be able to attach a block permanently to the goose neck for the outhaul. I know I'm a little spoiled after sailing the Hobie for years. Cables and quick pins are nice!! I just can't wrap my head around this nonsense. And the hull build don't get me started there. Let's just update the material and build specs and call it the Laser 2.0 or something and have two different fleets. New and old.... simple. Am I crazy???
     
  2. NC-LASER

    NC-LASER New Member

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    I don't know. Maybe I'm out of my element here or this is just a tired subject?
     
  3. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    "If you have a good idea for a rule change, talk first to some other sailors and also to class officials to see whether they share your opinion. If this is the case, then formulate the rule change as precisely as possible and add a justification. Next, send your proposal to the Chief Measurer of the Class, Jean-Luc Michon (e-mail: chiefmeasurer@laserinternational.org) He will discuss it with other members of the Technical and Measurement Committee. If recommended the proposal will then be presented to the World Council. Finally, if the World Council and the Advisory Council agree with your proposal, the rule change must be approved by two thirds of the membership."

    (Printed in the ILCA Handbook every year. Originally from page 3 in the January 2008 issue of Laser World: Jan 2008) ;)
     
  4. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    What do you mean with that?
    If you have a maximum size (30 mm sheave) block at the clew and another one at the fairlead, it gets a little crowded there. Better to keep it simple.
    I don't really understand how this would make anything essentially easier.
    That is totally legal. Ropes, bolts, shackles.
     
  5. NC-LASER

    NC-LASER New Member

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    My idea is to completely get rid of the rudder lock down line/purchase system. Just drill through the rudder plates and rudder in the down and up position, then use a pin to lock it in the desired position.

    My idea was to get rid of the block at the clew and move it to the boom fairlead and just shackle to the clew. I'd really like to attach a double micro block to the the block plate and do a double block to double block and becket. That way I can keep the outhual purchase system at the bottom of the mast and off the boom.

    Hoop idea is so that it can stay attached to the sail. When rigged, the boom would go through it and quick pin to the Cunningham. My goal is to rig a double block attached to the harken vang for the Cunningham. A pin through the mast tang and a pin through that hoop.... and the whole vang/Cunningham comes off the boat and back on with no rigging.

    After reading part 2 (f)v I see where it says blocks may also be attached to the gooseneck with a bolt or pin. Is an eyebolt legal??

    I just want to de-f@$k this boat and simplify the rigging as much as possible. I hate excessive rigging and lines running and being tied everywhere. I'm probably not the ideal candidate for "one-design" racing, and I probably should be over on that other sailing site. Because, that's just what I am, an Anarchist. I see problems. ... I just have to fix them or create my own solution to better suit my taste.

    The second paragraph of the rules states....

    "The few changes to the standard boat that are allowed are minor......"

    I think that is completely comical!! Look at the original 3:1 vang and 1:1 purchase system on the original design, and compare it to what is allowable today. Let's just write the rules to "not exceed" vang (15:1) and Cunningham/outhual (8:1). Then who cares hows it's rigged.
     
  6. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    The rudder blade stays down fine with friction. The more important function of the downhaul line is to keep the tiller tight in the rudder head.

    You can connect the outhaul directly to the clew under the current rules. You don't have to have a 2:1 there.

    Sounds like bad control system design. Multiple blocks always add friction. The boom is nice and long for single blocks to travel along. And there are good structural reasons why it's illegal to attach more than those two singles to the block plate.

    Bad design again. Not essentially easier to rig, and you'd lose purchase, range of adjustment, or both (and gain friction).

    I don't see why it wouldn't be legal but what would the advantage be?

    So do I. But I don't think your suggestions achieve that goal.

    Same here. I prefer non-"standard" solutions on my boats, too. But there is a fine line between useful creativity and crankery. The "A" website forum falls too often in that latter category. Haven't looked at it for at least a year.

    That's not in the rules. It's a part of a slightly propagandist introduction to them. "Minor" and even "few" are fuzzy terms to which one shouldn't really pay much attention.

    The systems can have more purchase, the cleating angles are better, and you can cleat the outhaul on the deck. That's really all. Not a huge development in thirty years.

    It's simpler to count "turning points" than purchase ratios.

    "Simplicity" and "complication" aren't as clear-cut either/or things as you'd like to think.
     
  7. NC-LASER

    NC-LASER New Member

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    Yep!! I think we've hit the nail on the head. Who cares how my boat or your boat are rigged.... as long as they don't exceed the set purchase ratios or "turns". Now, how is your rudder held down with friction? Mine lifts right up if it's not rigged down tightly.
     
  8. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Just tighten the rudder bolt so that you still can move it up and down by hand. The other option (used by a majority of the top sailors) is to tighten it as hard as you can and leave it in the down position, making it effectively fixed.

    Well, the class rules don't say anything about purchase ratios... which is simple and easy. No multiplication, just addition.
     
  9. NC-LASER

    NC-LASER New Member

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    Yeah. That's what I was afraid you were going to say..... just tighten the piss out of the pivot bolt. That totally removes to functionality of the rudder a) puts undue stress on the gudgeons and, b) if you tighten it so it says down, you'll never be able to beach it. I don't know if you have any experience running a boat ashore here on a North Carolina beach? If not, you're usually coming in HOT and shallow for a long time. It's easier to pull a pin to unlock the rudder and easier on the rudder/gudgeons to allow the rudder to just hang free and drag its way in. And, I'm sorry I ever said ratios around you. I will now forever indicate purchase power by TURNS.
     
  10. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    I'm not sure "beaching a laser coming in hot" is a good idea in general. Sounds like it would be pretty rough on the hull finish. You can tighten the rudder bolt enough so the rudder won't pop up on it's own, but will still come up if you hit something. Just leave the "rudder tie down" line slack and use the tiller pin to hold the tiller in.

    For the most part the tiller tie down line is for keeping the tiller tightly secured in the rudder head.

    If you're not racing you should feel free to rig as you please. I'd say rig as you please for the local stuff as well and if you want to come to district events run past us what you're doing and we'll likely say "ok". We're happy to help more boats come out.
     

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